| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| coreyrecko |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 15:57:33
This is the place to discuss Murder on the White Sands: The Disappearance of Albert and Henry Fountain (University of North Texas Press, 2007). The first edition hard cover was published in 2007 and the paperback in 2008. |
| 4 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| coreyrecko |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 15:45:45
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the book. I have not read Cricket in the Web, but it sounds interesting. Political corruption plagued both parties in New Mexico for so long. I recently gave a speech on the Santa Fe Ring and New Mexico Governor Samuel B. Axtell. That period in the 1870s probably shows New Mexico with its worst corruption, but it remained bad for years.
Nobody ever explained why they could not pickup the tracks after the cattle herd passed the search party. My guess would be that, at least for a time, the cattle herd followed directly over the tracks.
I've talked to experts familiar with forensics, and the consensus seems to be that there would still be something left of the Fountains' remains. Even if the bodies were burned, I'm told it would have been impossible for them to generate enough heat to get rid of the bones completely.
I can only assume the charred bodies in James Canyon are in a pauper's grave. Neither local law enforcement, the county, or the state had any records relating to these bodies, nor are there any detailed records explaining why Garrett thought what he did, or Jack Fountain thought what he did. It is an interesting story, and I would love to find those remains and see them DNA tested, but whatever evidence there was that these were the Fountain remains, it wasn't enough to keep the Fountain family from searching for the remains in the future.
Assuming the bones were of a man and a child, I don't know of another similar disappearance around that time, but there's not enough surviving information to make a judgment. We don't know how long the bones may have been buried there. I would tend to agree with Garrett's opinion over Jack Fountain's because Garrett has had more detective experience, but Garrett did have his flaws as a detective. I would like to have seen a medical expert's opinion on the bones.
Personally, I believe the Fountains' remains may be near the area where the 1950 search focused on, but of course this is only my opinion.
I suppose cattle being run over the freshly buried bodies would e a possibility. There was so much empty land in New Mexico it seems it would be easy to bury a body that, with a little luck, would never be discovered. Even today, if you buried a body between Dog Canyon and Wildy Well (near Orogrande) and only had small groups of men out looking for that tiny grave, what are the odds of it never being discovered.
The indictments against Lee were dropped (pg. 101).
Wildy Well has also been called Wilde Well. I'm surprised it's on the GPS since it's on Fort Bliss property, but if it's near Orogrande, that's it.
I agree with you on finding the bodies, but I think that's what Garrett spent much of his time doing. Had he made out reports like John Fraser did, I think there you'd see a lot of time spent searching for the bodies.
I have heard of but not read Blaze of Glory. All I know is that it is a fictional. How much is based in fact I do not know. |
| Shako |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 13:42:46
I just finished your book Murder on the White Sands. I have so much to say about this book. I loved it! I had just read Cricket in the Web, an unsolved murder novel in Las Cruces in the 1940s by Paula Moore. I loved that book too. Have you read it? Here are some similarities, political corruption in the democrat party, in which A.B. Fall sets the democrat party up in the 1880s to protect cattle thieves and by the 1940s the party is protecting mobsters, and gambling rings, then the cricket murder breaks down this corrupt power hungry faction. If you know about Cricket in the Web, what did you think about it?
Well for starters the thing that pestered me most is that the professional trackers could not track past the cattle herd. It makes no sense to me. If horsemen rode through an area and cattle went over their tracks, you could still go to the edges of the cattle herd's tracks and re-pick up the tracks of the party your following. Or so I would think. If no tracks of horsemen come out from the edge of the cattle's tracks you'd have to suppose the cattle tracks are directly following the horsemen's tracks to Wildy Wells. (in which case since McNew and others were seen by Clausen at Wildy Wells, and Clausen believed it was Lee's horse that branched off and went towards Jarilla then to Wildy Wells this would make sense) Something was happening there at Wildy Wells for Clausen to have observed the nervouseness. I seriously doubt Clausen would mistake lead for a gun. Your book states what happened when Clausen who tracked one trail arrived at Wildy Wells but not what happened when Llewellyns group arrived there.
I am interested in where Lee's steam pumps were that he supposedly used to possibly burn the bodies. But I do think the bodies were burned as also one lady stated she saw a large fire 10 miles or so south of La Luz, I dont know what in relation that fire would be to James Canyon, but that seems likely to me.
I am sure Gilliland, Lee, and Fall had something to do in the murders because frequently when they refer to Col. Fountain and Son I noticed they compare them to animals to dehumanize them so as not to feel to much guilt for the murders. Fall likes to use snake. Lee likes to use bitch. Gilliland likes to use dog. Then of course Gilliland told the slightly exagerrated story about how they killed the Fountains as well.
A list of questions I have:
Do you still think the bodies are out there somewhere?
What happened to the charred bodies found at James Canyon? (why did Garret think they were not the Fountains but Jack was uncertain) On this topic Garrett I think had only seen photos, but Jack Fountain grew up with them, Jack Fountain would be more reliable to determine this. But I think Garrett after Henry's trial realized Fall had everything sorted out and without a beyond the doubt this is them, it was pointless.
Could Wildy Wells also be known as Wilde Wells? (thats what it appears as on my GPS)
Do you think graves could be dug and then a herd ran over the graves to make the appearances of anything freshly dug disappear?
One thing that bummed me out was I was imagining the bodies being somewhere in a triangle between Chalk Hill, the Jarillas, and Wildy Wells. But at the very end of your book I got hit with the bombshell of the charred bodies in James Canyon.
Were there other people missing at the time in the area?
What happened with the cattle thief cases against Lee's outfit? I imagine they were dismissed and even though Fall said Col. Fountains death would not end up disabling justice in the area, I think it likely.
I think the investigators focused too much on finding murderers first than finding the bodies. If the bodies had been found it would of been a sealed deal I bet especially the ones in James Canyon possibly. I would of looked for the bodies in this fashion, gather up a posse, and tell them okay, your a group of kilers trying to hide bodies, where would you hide them in this geographic area. Eventually you would of found the bodies I think. But then also one girl stated she saw them feed Henry to the pigs.
I was also looking at the names of some of the canyons in the area, theres a deadman's canyon and negro ed canyon in the area of the state park. I thought it odd that out of everyone surrounding Oliver Lee on his ranch one canyon would end up getting named after someone in his outfit. So I think that person in his outfit was special or deserved recognition by the Lees in some way shape or form more so than prime suspects Gilliland and McNew.
I have other questions but don't want to pester you to much. I have another book called Blaze of Glory The Legends of Oliver Lee and Pat Garrett by Ben Tarver ( the next in line to get read). Have you read that one? Ill let you know. So far I looked at it, and I think it had fictional dialogue in it.
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| coreyrecko |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 18:41:09
Jimbob,
Thank you very much for the kind words. I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed the book.
Oliver Lee's name is on the park because of his service to the Government later in life, and because he owned the land. But I admit there's times when I've thought the same things.
I'm sorry to say that Wildy well is located on the Fort Bliss firing range and Chalk Hill is located on the White Sands Missile Range. The old wagon road the Fountains took home and Chalk Hill are visible south of the 70. Chalk Hill is about 100 yards east of the historical marker (on the 70) marking the Fountain murders. If you look south from that spot, you'll see two paths. The first is a road still used by the military. Just south of that is the old wagon road. |
| jimbob |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 09:55:00
Just finished your book and am very impressed. Live in Alamogordo so naturally I was drawn to the book. Every time I bike alongside the Oliver Lee Bypass route I just lierally shake my head as to how his name could be placed on a public thoroughfare? After reading the book I understand how politics greeed and lawlessness were hand in hand. I would like to explore the route Albert and Henry took and also the location of the Wildly Well ruins and hope that they are not located on government land i.e. Ft. Bliss res. or White Sands res.
Good Job Corey.
JIMBOB |
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